I will be sending a daughter off to university soon and have been visiting universities to learn more about post-secondary education. All universities and colleges hold open houses in the fall for prospective students and their parents. When we sent our first daughter off to university, we attended no open houses. She had done her own investigating, selected her program and then informed us of her decision - as she has done since grade 2 with all other major decisions. Her world revolves around horses and veterinary school has always been the end goal. No discussion needed!
My second daughter has broader interests and is more open to shared investigation. She wanted to explore her options, so last weekend she attended the Ottawa University open house and then I joined her in Montreal for McGill University's.
Times have certainly changed since I attended university. Back then, there were no day long events that afforded students the possibility of making informed choices. You simply filled in an application with the 3 permitted post secondary choices and off you went. I don't know anyone who actually visited campuses ahead of time - and I don't think any of my peers discussed with their parents post-secondary options. We made our choices and we went. Most of my friends' parents had not gone to university, so their insights would have been pointless, other than to insist that we attend university.
I have to say I was impressed by how things have changed. Prior to the open houses, my daughter did attend information sessions at her high school where representatives from various institutions gave overviews of their schools, but these sessions in no way compared with what she learned by attending the open houses. She now has a much clearer understanding of how the game of university works and what needs to be done in high school in order to set herself up on her path of choice.
We also learned some things that surprised us. IB programs which are spreading across Ontario are not taken into consideration when evaluating potential students. Marks are compared mark for mark whether the mark comes from a student in a traditional high school program, an IB program, a French Immersion program or ... . Acceptance into a program still comes down to marks. Students who begin IB programs with the intent of making themselves more eligible for their Canadian university of choice should carefully consider whether the demands of the program are worth the effort. One poor student at the McGill session was shocked to hear that his lower mark in an IB program might prevent him from being accepted into McGill.
We gazed with envy at he fees Quebec students pay to attend McGill: $2 300 per year compared to what the rest of Canada pays to attend university. $5-$10 000 per year.
At the end of the weekend the girls felt informed and better prepared for what lies ahead, but they commented on the gap between what they learned in those sessions and the information they are receiving at school.
Both felt that not enough useful information about post-secondary is being communicated to students in high school early enough. Both wished that they had had information sessions about post-secondary starting in grade 11 rather than waiting until grade 12 so that they could be more strategic in their course selections. Both felt that grade 11 students should be strongly encouraged to attend university open houses in grade 11 - that waiting until the fall of grade 12 is in some ways too late. Students can better prepare themselves if they know what the end goal is. Given that grade 11 marks are looked at, they felt that more students would take school more seriously if they had a better understanding of where they were headed and first-hand information about various institutions. University campuses are exciting and both thought that by attending an open house and experiencing university life even for a day, students would become motivated to do well. Both thought that teachers in high school providing advice on universities should be obliged to attend a few open houses so that their knowledge of how the game of university is played today is more up to date, particularly their understanding of the options and flexible pathways for students in university. Of, course the questions remain, do students entering grade 11 have the maturity to make these assessments? Is post-secondary still too distant a prospect to make such visits useful? We won't know unless we begin the process.
One final uncomfortable thought. The girls commented on the range of quality teaching that they've experienced in high school. Some teachers have been outstanding, others weak in their program delivery and ability to communicate effectively with students. Some teachers are better than others, yet all teachers hold the future of students in their hands because of their control over marks. Unsettling indeed.
My second daughter has broader interests and is more open to shared investigation. She wanted to explore her options, so last weekend she attended the Ottawa University open house and then I joined her in Montreal for McGill University's.
Times have certainly changed since I attended university. Back then, there were no day long events that afforded students the possibility of making informed choices. You simply filled in an application with the 3 permitted post secondary choices and off you went. I don't know anyone who actually visited campuses ahead of time - and I don't think any of my peers discussed with their parents post-secondary options. We made our choices and we went. Most of my friends' parents had not gone to university, so their insights would have been pointless, other than to insist that we attend university.
I have to say I was impressed by how things have changed. Prior to the open houses, my daughter did attend information sessions at her high school where representatives from various institutions gave overviews of their schools, but these sessions in no way compared with what she learned by attending the open houses. She now has a much clearer understanding of how the game of university works and what needs to be done in high school in order to set herself up on her path of choice.
We also learned some things that surprised us. IB programs which are spreading across Ontario are not taken into consideration when evaluating potential students. Marks are compared mark for mark whether the mark comes from a student in a traditional high school program, an IB program, a French Immersion program or ... . Acceptance into a program still comes down to marks. Students who begin IB programs with the intent of making themselves more eligible for their Canadian university of choice should carefully consider whether the demands of the program are worth the effort. One poor student at the McGill session was shocked to hear that his lower mark in an IB program might prevent him from being accepted into McGill.
We gazed with envy at he fees Quebec students pay to attend McGill: $2 300 per year compared to what the rest of Canada pays to attend university. $5-$10 000 per year.
At the end of the weekend the girls felt informed and better prepared for what lies ahead, but they commented on the gap between what they learned in those sessions and the information they are receiving at school.
Both felt that not enough useful information about post-secondary is being communicated to students in high school early enough. Both wished that they had had information sessions about post-secondary starting in grade 11 rather than waiting until grade 12 so that they could be more strategic in their course selections. Both felt that grade 11 students should be strongly encouraged to attend university open houses in grade 11 - that waiting until the fall of grade 12 is in some ways too late. Students can better prepare themselves if they know what the end goal is. Given that grade 11 marks are looked at, they felt that more students would take school more seriously if they had a better understanding of where they were headed and first-hand information about various institutions. University campuses are exciting and both thought that by attending an open house and experiencing university life even for a day, students would become motivated to do well. Both thought that teachers in high school providing advice on universities should be obliged to attend a few open houses so that their knowledge of how the game of university is played today is more up to date, particularly their understanding of the options and flexible pathways for students in university. Of, course the questions remain, do students entering grade 11 have the maturity to make these assessments? Is post-secondary still too distant a prospect to make such visits useful? We won't know unless we begin the process.
One final uncomfortable thought. The girls commented on the range of quality teaching that they've experienced in high school. Some teachers have been outstanding, others weak in their program delivery and ability to communicate effectively with students. Some teachers are better than others, yet all teachers hold the future of students in their hands because of their control over marks. Unsettling indeed.
Fascinating Heidi. Thanks for sharing this.
ReplyDeleteThanks Mary Ann and you're welcome. I hope this post is seen by many parents whose children will soon be making this decision. The disconnect between high school and post secondary is great and given the costs of higher ed, informed choices are crucial. Rushing this during the fall of grade 12 puts pressure on students and families. There are so many options that more time to consider those options would be beneficial to all.
ReplyDeleteHi Ms. Siwak,
ReplyDeleteI agree that more information regarding universities should be given out earlier. If I hadn't been like your first daughter with only one goal in mind, I can't say that my high school would have prepared me enough in deciding my future. I think it would be a wonderful idea to begin giving information in grade 11. If information was given out earlier, it would allow for better planning and more thorough decisions to be made.
Hi Taylor,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comments. It is interesting to see that my sentiments about when planning for university should begin is echoed by someone attending post-secondary. I wonder how many of your peers feel the same?